offensive material

[CocoaPuss Zine]

i'm not sure if this has ever been mentioned on here before, but i just thought of it because i was thinking about distros and all their guidelines. i'm not sure what to think about saying "no racist, sexist, homophobic, etc etc material will be accepted". i mean aren't zines supposed to be the one place where you can say what you want? is this just some other form of censorship? surely everything written is offensive to someone right?

i just feel really censored and uninspired right now, like i can't really say what i want to say without hurting someone's feelings and that really sucks. i mean, the distro thing doesn't really bug me, but just the fact that their are so many rules even in zines, just makes me irritated. can i really be offensive if i am talking about my own experiences? sometimes i want to write about types of people that annoy me or things they do, but then i'm racist or sexist or whatever. i'm not really sure i'm explaining how i feel properly. oh well.

[kit feral]

... seriously? you'd be okay if someone took something from your zine and put it in theirs without your permission?

okay... I THINK you're a minority here. I don't know. I'm all for sharing art, but I'd like to know where my art is being shared, and especially if I'm being identified with it how I want to.

kitty magic said:

i wouldnt be pissed or mad or angry or i wouldnt feel anything if someone stole anything that i drew and fucked around with it...id be ok with that

star blanket river child said:

well, first of all, I'd be pretty pissed if someone took my work, so I respect fellow artists. Second, if someone gets pissed, they probably won't sue me for lots of money since I'm making no money, but they might try to get me to destroy my work, and I am NOT risking that.

I guess, to me, it's not really the whole "law" bit, but the respect for fellow artists. Plus, there's plenty of cool stuff in the public domain.

Zacery / I'm Not Lion said:

That's why I don't tell my parents everything about my zine. Fuck copyright laws though, I've been cut-and-pasting images, stickers, naked people and excerpts from other zines for a while now, why the hell are people who make zines worrying about copyright laws?!

[Bethany]

If someone fucked with my art I'd be pissed. I put pictures of others in my zine buty don't change them in any way and I give them full credit.

[Dan C]

Public domain images, royalty free stock images, images released under creative commons and other similar licenses, teaming up with an artist, asking people to use their images, practicing your art skills...

Zacery / I'm Not Lion said:

But what am I gonna do?! I can't draw, and my zine needs visual stimulae.

[Bethany]

Hmmm... Yeah, I see your point. I am an artist by profession and have photomanipulated dozens of magazine images and photos (99% my photos). This is not against the rules as far as artistic liscence goes. An image must be changed in a definitive way to make it your own. ie. Pop Art, etc. The image you talk about is from a famous ad and I'll bet unless you see the original in front of you you wouldn't recognize it. Now the cover of Glass Head with the tanks on it (which I think you are talking about) is a blatent sham, I admit. But I did consider that it came from a 1970's comic book ad that is more than obsolete. Any photo that goes inside my zine and illustrates my storys I do give full credit for. But, as I said...If someone fucked with my art I WOULD be pissed. Life is complicated.


Zacery / I'm Not Lion said:

Well, if I get the magazine "HorrorHound Magazine" and use the picture they used for their front cover (some cool art of loads of horror movie icons in one poster) in my zine, how is that any different than me cutting out the image you used for the front cover of "Glass Head" of a woman with collage over her face and putting text over part of the image? It's not, then again, maybe you'd be against me using images from anything. But what am I gonna do?! I can't draw, and my zine needs visual stimulae.

[kit feral]

I can't draw either, but there's plenty of public domain images out there. Lots of free clip art, or images that have expired copyrights.

Zacery / I'm Not Lion said:

Well, if I get the magazine "HorrorHound Magazine" and use the picture they used for their front cover (some cool art of loads of horror movie icons in one poster) in my zine, how is that any different than me cutting out the image you used for the front cover of "Glass Head" of a woman with collage over her face and putting text over part of the image? It's not, then again, maybe you'd be against me using images from anything. But what am I gonna do?! I can't draw, and my zine needs visual stimulae.

[Dan 10things]

Clementine Cannibal said:

you can do it all on your own and cocoa/puss does. i find it a little condescending that you're saying 'slow down and read it again'.

She did seem to misread what I said.

Clementine Cannibal said:

i too have felt very hesitant to submit my zines to distros. grrrls like cocoa/puss, who has the guts to say what's on her mind even if it's hard, have to carve out spaces for themselves everywhere. we always have to do it 'all on our own'. it would be nice if the zineworld had more room for truly subversive voices.

I pretty much agree... although it's not really that hard to speak your mind, that's what this whole zine (and punk) thing has always been about. The hard part is constantly being a loaner or voice with opinions outside the group or norm, even in an alternative culture, because you will constantly face criticism of your peers and that tends to burn out subversive voices faster. The zine world did have a lot more subversive and alternative voices a few years ago, but most of them have burned out and their roles in the zine community weren't really replaces. The zine world has changed, it's a bit more homogeneous and less about shouting your opinion to as many people as possible. Now it's more niche and focused on small print run perzines where a lot of people share the same values. That insularity leads to shunning voices and opinions outside of the norm of the community. But I'll tell you, for me at least, the voices outside the norm tend to be the most interesting and include some of my favorite zine titles published in the past 20 years.

[Dan 10things]

Erin H said:

If someone looks at my guidelines about racism/sexism/other -isms, and thinks "oh, hmm, maybe she wouldn't like my zine then"...I probably wouldn't want to see that person's zines anyway. It's my distro, so I sell what I like. I'm not going to sell some shitty offensive zine because I want to PRESERVE FREE SPEECH. The zine community can be pretty alienating to begin with for POC, disabled folk, and women (as well as others), so why would I want to continue that cycle by distributing bigotry?

I think the zine community actually is way more politically correct and less alienating to people of color, the disabled and women than mainstream society. You certainly you should distribute whatever you feel like, it's your distro, no reason to be so defensive about it.

But I think what you're missing in their argument is their zines really aren't bigoted, but touch on topics that aren't exactly PC. And maybe having such rigid PC guidelines is intimidating to zinesters that tackle more racy or fringe-y subjects. There's a point where too many rules and too much group think starts to limit creativity and limit the variety of voices.

[Erin H]

As a biracial disabled woman, I can tell you it is not "way more politically correct" or less alienating. And seriously, if you don't know the difference between beeing sexist/racist/etc and being cool edgy/fringe-y, then I don't know if I would want to see your zines. You know?

Dan 10things said:

Erin H said:

If someone looks at my guidelines about racism/sexism/other -isms, and thinks "oh, hmm, maybe she wouldn't like my zine then"...I probably wouldn't want to see that person's zines anyway. It's my distro, so I sell what I like. I'm not going to sell some shitty offensive zine because I want to PRESERVE FREE SPEECH. The zine community can be pretty alienating to begin with for POC, disabled folk, and women (as well as others), so why would I want to continue that cycle by distributing bigotry?

I think the zine community actually is way more politically correct and less alienating to people of color, the disabled and women than mainstream society. You certainly you should distribute whatever you feel like, it's your distro, no reason to be so defensive about it.

But I think what you're missing in their argument is their zines really aren't bigoted, but touch on topics that aren't exactly PC. And maybe having such rigid PC guidelines is intimidating to zinesters that tackle more racy or fringe-y subjects. There's a point where too many rules and too much group think starts to limit creativity and limit the variety of voices.

[tim scannell]

zines are CHOCKABLOCK with...'group think'...their 'edgy' and 'fringe-' stuff is merely
LIBERAL CRAP...no judgement...no discernment...no right/wrong...etcetera. The
ZINE WORLD does not deal with REAL subjects...like the murdering of Christians
round-the-world...or the enslavement of Muslim women...or the absolute corruption
of the UN...deal with some REAL 'edginess'...then get back to me about silly American
wee-wee boo-boos...FAUX ISSUES!! "Edgy' topics...what a laugh!!!

[CocoaPuss Zine]

smirks to herself

tim scannell said:

zines are CHOCKABLOCK with...'group think'...their 'edgy' and 'fringe-' stuff is merely
LIBERAL CRAP...no judgement...no discernment...no right/wrong...etcetera. The
ZINE WORLD does not deal with REAL subjects...like the murdering of Christians
round-the-world...or the enslavement of Muslim women...or the absolute corruption
of the UN...deal with some REAL 'edginess'...then get back to me about silly American
wee-wee boo-boos...FAUX ISSUES!! "Edgy' topics...what a laugh!!!

[Dan 10things]

Erin H said:

As a biracial disabled woman, I can tell you it is not "way more politically correct" or less alienating. And seriously, if you don't know the difference between being sexist/racist/etc and being cool edgy/fringe-y, then I don't know if I would want to see your zines. You know?

I think you are still missing the point, it isn't all about you you you or what you want to see. There is a greater zine community out there... and there are voices in that community that are saying all the rules make them feel like there isn't a place for their voice in this community. And there are a lot of zine readers that would like to see a wider variety of voices, especially weird and fringey ones. At least acknowledge that. And really, those publishers and readers shouldn't give a crap about what you personally want to see in a zine, or about what you personally will and won't distro. They should write about what they want and publish what they want. Fuck some distro's rules, who cares? You don't need a distro to carry your zine to be successful publishing a zine. And you certainly shouldn't let politically correct rules stifle your voice. The whole reason for me to self-publish is to have full control over my zine. No rules!

[Erin H]

When did I ever say anything about distros being the end-all for zines? I actually said before that just because certain distros don't want to carry racist shit doesn't mean you can't make a zine. I know there's more than just distros. You are saying it's my distro and I can carry what I want - yes, I know that. But my distro, and any other distro, isn't the only place you can get zines. If anyone doesn't like my submission guidelines, they don't have to submit. My distro "rules" are not rules for the whole zine world. I'm only commenting on what I do, because some people on this post were ragging on distro guidelines as if that was stopping them from getting their zine out there. It isn't.

Dan 10things said:

Erin H said:

As a biracial disabled woman, I can tell you it is not "way more politically correct" or less alienating. And seriously, if you don't know the difference between being sexist/racist/etc and being cool edgy/fringe-y, then I don't know if I would want to see your zines. You know?

I think you are still missing the point, it isn't all about you you you or what you want to see. There is a greater zine community out there... and there are voices in that community that are saying all the rules make them feel like there isn't a place for their voice in this community. And there are a lot of zine readers that would like to see a wider variety of voices, especially weird and fringey ones. At least acknowledge that. And really, those publishers and readers shouldn't give a crap about what you personally want to see in a zine, or about what you personally will and won't distro. They should write about what they want and publish what they want. Fuck some distro's rules, who cares? You don't need a distro to carry your zine to be successful publishing a zine. And you certainly shouldn't let politically correct rules stifle your voice. The whole reason for me to self-publish is to have full control over my zine. No rules!