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helenomicon said:I think Joe kind of forfeited the right to privacy when he chose to emotionally abuse Alex, but hey, whatever.
So you think it's fine for the public to openly discuss went on all your past relationships when you did something wrong? And to bring it up again and again in public forums and to try to get other people involved in the drama?
Is it abuse overlooking? I don't think so at all. I just don't see how alleged abuse in their personal relationship has anything to do with us or why some of you feel so easy at discussing it when you clearly do not have all the details. To me it borders on libel, which I not only find unethical, but it's something you can be sued over.
tiara's comparison to roald dahl is a brilliant one. because of remarks dahl made in his life, there are people who perceive of him as viciously anti-semitic. some of those people refuse to purchase his books because they feel they are supporting the legacy of a political platform they find detestable. others acknowledge his anti-semitism, but feel that it has no bearing on the books he has written. & others have tried to argue that dahl's remarks have been misconstrued & that he wasn't anti-semitic at all.
as far as joe & his history of abuse (which is not "alleged" at all, dan; i think even joe would admit to abusive behaviors at this point) & its relationship to microcosm...the same dynamic is at play. he has his irascible defenders, who won't even accept the idea that accusations against him are anything other than scurrilous gossip & rumor-mongering. then there are the soft-boiled apologists, who say he may have done "bad things," but see no reason not to support microcosm & spin joe out a whole series of second chances. & then there are people like me, who think the truth is obvious to anyone who cares to really look at it, & refuse to support a business that enables the sort of unethical, illegal, manipulative, abusive behavior joe has been engaging in for the last ten or so years. & expecting any of these camps to come together in a sudden display of solidarity & unified acceptance of a single perspective is ludicrous. i have no faith that someone like dan will read my words & suddenly see things the way i do, & no matter how many times he dismisses what i say as "gossip," i'm not going to agree with him.
but i will say that i must disagree with star blanket river child: as heated as this thread has become at times (& how could i not, when we're talking about the kinds of issues we are talking about--emotional abuse tends to raise feelings a little more than questions about long-arm staplers), there hasn't been any "name-calling," as far as i have seen. it IS possible to disagree with someone, even virulently, even to think less of them as a person because of your disagreement, without resorting to "squabbling," & by & large, i don't think i'd classify the majority of this thread as "squabbling" or "drama". i disagree with people like krissy & dan, in deep, fundamental ways, & the nature of our disagreements says a lot about who they are as people & their respect for other people (especially abuse survivors), & as i result, i think somewhat less of them. but this discussion absolutely SHOULD be happening here, because a) tiara asked about it, in seemingly good faith, & she deserves a response, & b) because this issue DOES affect the larger zine community, & this website, as ridiculous as it often is, seems to be the online hotspot for zine-related communication right now. if anyone has a better recommendation about where this issue can be discussed so that people who are curious about making better zine procurement decisions have access to information that might help them, i am all ears.
do you honestly think this HASN'T been discussed through blogs & word of mouth? this conversation is hardly the crowning jewel of joe biel-related information dispensation, but it is another avenue for appraising people of the situation. obviously a few people have walked away with new information that is making them think. i consider that a win.