how do y'all feel about this?

[ramsey everydaypants]

I just got this e-mail:

"Dear Ramsey

I am currently completing a book called FANZINES (Thames & Hudson) and have included the cover of List / Goodbye, Baltimore, no. 12 (fall 2008), fully credited in the book.

My book looks at the history of fanzines in a general overview of UK and USA-based self-publishing. As a good example of an interesting contemporary personal zine it would be remiss not to include it in any history of fanzines. The book is due out in September and I hope this will establish the importance of this form of self-publishing.

I do hope this is okay.

Yours sincerely,

Prof Teal Triggs
University of the Arts London
"

Poor form right? I know a lot of zinesters don't care about their things being reproduced or used, and I actually don't mind at all for it to be included, but it seems like asking ahead of time would be the right thing to do, right? Especially for a book?

[kit feral]

Yeah, I think that's the difference here.
Also, some of us only use public domain images.
Anyway, whether it's legal or not isn't really the issue here, I don't think. It was rude, it was sneaky, and it was completely unnecessary. I'm sure most zinesters would have been thrilled and said yes, had she asked. The fact that she didn't makes her look shady. At least that's how I see it.

Jenna Appleseed said:

but zine makers image appropriation isn't (usually) for making a profit

Wes White said:

- but so much image-appropriation goes on in zining I think it looks a bit odd for the community to get too upset about it.

[Wes White]

I think it's unfortunate and a shame that people were contacted too late, but I think the intentions are good. I wouldn't criticise anyone who felt affronted by it.

[Zineswap]

For those of you London based, Teal Triggs will be chairing this forthcoming talk on Tuesday 21st. It's a fiver but could be good to hear her thoughts on zines etc first-hand. Thought you may be interested:
http://www.dandad.org/2010/08/sharpner-the-art-of-the-fanzine/
I think we'll be going down and we'll drag along the swap-box for a small swap session in a nearby pub after, in case anyone is interested.

[NicoleIntrovert]

A publication like Zine World, which generally uses original art by a different artist for each cover... yeah that should be cleared first. Zine World may have permission to use that art... but use in a FOR PROFIT book may not be welcomed.

The covers of my zines have also all been original artwork by my friends or my own photography (sans the most recent copy which is just type). Not stolen images.

Wes White said:

I do think it would have been better to have contacted people beforehand - but so much image-appropriation goes on in zining I think it looks a bit odd for the community to get too upset about it

[Wes White]

I only use original images made specially for my zines too. I certainly would understand if individuals felt bothered by this, although for me personally, I'm not that worried. It's in the context of talking about the zine and directing people to it.

[Spurzine]

I definitely concur with the suggestion to contact the publisher. Reminds me of a terrible experience I had a couple of years back with my real estate agent at the time. After getting frustrated by the lack of response on the part of my property manager, I complained about her to her boss - very quick response then.

I must admit that I glossed over the release date when I got my e-mail, and just presumed it'd by upwards of a year down the track (they asked to use the cover of my first issue of D90). As such, I was rather chuffed. But after seeing the fall-out over the last coupla weeks... yeah... not happy.

[fanzinepaper]

I received the invitation to send fanzines to be displayed in the presentation of this book. (I received this: http://webe.emv3.com/thamesandhu/Fanzines/Fanzines_ForFacebook.html) I thought it was a good idea, and I sent them some.

Now, if I get to read all this before, I would have thought two (or more) times. I do not think she did it with malice, but it costs nothing to send an email notifying you're doing that and want to publish your work in the book. I understand that many are angry and disappointed, are not ways to seem a serious editorial.

Zineswap, you have the opportunity to speak with her face-face, maybe you can bring new news on this topic, hehehe

PS: I want to see if the book will come with copyright Thames & Hudson, is to laugh (or cry).

[Jerianne]

Just posted on the Zine World website: Fanzines book appropriates zine images.

[R!R!]

Just thought I would add to this -

Teal contacted me a good few months back about using my zine in the book and we even managed to meet up for coffee to discuss the project and share our experiences of zines etc. I was really surprised to see this thread considering how far in advance she contacted me, though I definitely don't think she has handled this at all well, it is worth adding that there are, I assume, a number of us who were contacted well ahead of time.

Also, I would want to add that I would consider her a pretty active part of the zine community in London/the uk to a certain extent. Although she doesn't produce zines she regularly writes and talks about various zines in a variety of places - magazines, other fanzines, events etc and is pretty 'present' at zine related events. I really wouldn't ever peg her as the exploitative outsider.

I can totally see why people are mad about this and I think they are justified, but thought it worth adding my experience of it.

[Jack Cheiky]

reposted from zine world on facebook.

the line seems arbitrary. i remember back when they were having the copyright debates, the point was made that a certain amount of appropriation is reasonable. so, why is a pic of the cover of a zine, which is only a small... part of the publication, theft?

if i take a picture of a monkey holding a zine and print it commercially, is that theft? how about if i just take a picture of the zine, is that still my original artwork? how about if i scan it? see my point? the only reason this subject has even come up is because it's a commercial endeavor,which seems misguided to me. either we are anti-copyright or we're not.

hypothetically, what if a zinester was doing the same thing on a smaller scale, and the project suddenly went viral and the person actually made some money... would that be theft? is it the INTENTION to make money that creates the villain?

is there anyone out there with a legitimate reason why they wouldn't WANT their zine included in a book about zines?

it's my opinion that zines exist as an outlet for non-commercial content, not because commercial publications are evil, (sorry, Tom,) but simply because non-commercial content has value and is needed.

[NicoleIntrovert]

Jack - i think you may be missing the point. This isn't someone who copied the cover of a zine for their own zine to write a review or something of that nature. This is someone who took the covers of zines and is putting them in a book with a large scale publisher and is charging $28 for the book.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Jack Cheiky]

Why?

NicoleIntrovert said:

Jack - i think you may be missing the point. This isn't someone who copied the cover of a zine for their own zine to write a review or something of that nature. This is someone who took the covers of zines and is putting them in a book with a large scale publisher and is charging $28 for the book.

BIG DIFFERENCE.