We Make Zines

a place for zinesters - writers and readers

I just got this e-mail:

"Dear Ramsey

I am currently completing a book called FANZINES (Thames & Hudson) and have included the cover of List Goodbye, Baltimore, no. 12 (fall 2008), fully credited in the book.

My book looks at the history of fanzines in a general overview of UK and USA-based self-publishing. As a good example of an interesting contemporary personal zine it would be remiss not to include it in any history of fanzines. The book is due out in September and I hope this will establish the importance of this form of self-publishing.

I do hope this is okay.

Yours sincerely,

Prof Teal Triggs
University of the Arts London
"


Poor form right? I know a lot of zinesters don't care about their things being reproduced or used, and I actually don't mind at all for it to be included, but it seems like asking ahead of time would be the right thing to do, right? Especially for a book?


Views: 1024

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

LOL.

Karen Paulie, Care and Feeding of Spinning Wheels.  Ciro Marchetti with his tarot deck/book set.  Writer's publication sites (best selling NY times books bulletin board).  A personal friend currently shopping her book around to publishers. Writers Digest agent articles in the past Nov.-Dec. issues.  Sure, it's negotiable, but the advances are still there.

Quibble all you want, money is being made when something goes through the standard publisher sites and is offered to the public.

The whole thread here is about how WE feel about this. I stated my views and reasons.  She dropped the ball and neglected an important part.  I'm not argueing the validity of how I feel.   

Joseph Delgado said:

I wonder where you get your numbers, cause i have never received such a generous advance even as a winner of a principal award via a major publisher....and i know from experience that royalties are bracketed based on the number of books sold and at most many writers only get up to 50% royalties (based off wholesale price after publisher discount usually at 48 to 50% the face value after the advance payout was satisfied via sales) if they are even remotely lucky and only if they sell past a particular threshold and usually they only get about 8% royalties and their usual print runs are limited to 2000 these days...i know.  You are again assuming that zinesters should follow these legal precedents that we have for the last thirty years purposely attacked via utilizing underground and radical means...for all we know Triggs total sales minus returns, minus damaged shipments, minus fees and expenses may only be a handful, poor royalties, and for all we know her advance was a measly 1000 to 2000 dollars since she isnt a celebrity or anything or self-help book writer....i digress...the point is that zines shouldnt be held to the same industry standards...rather their existence is a manifestation or reactions against such 'community' established rules and regulations...you make a dangerous assumption that all oblige such rules...I still hold Triggs work is important, albeit lacking in variety, and those included should be honored that ten or twenty years from now, some young person will come along flip open a tattered copy and be inspired...isnt that what the nature of creativity is about? rather than worrying about the trivalities of money....

Is the book Trigg's wrote copyrighted? Without proper credit and citations, does that mean that all works within the book are also copyrighted and owned under that publisher?

 

Just a curious question I have, is all. If it is, would that make the publication itself ironic?

 

 

How are you ripped off? And it absolutely is not a copyright violation, read up on copyright law. It's perfectly OK to feature a cover or a page or two from a book/zine/magazine/record album/etc. when you are writing about them in a review, historical or scene type of book. It happens all the time! This book is like any other zine book except it's not as good as a bunch of them. But if you've read books like Zines volume 1 and 2 by ReSearch, Seth's Factsheet Five Reader, etc. they all featured covers or pages from zines and wrote about them, and the authors were not always notified. The same can be said for ZineWiki and Zine Libraries, fans of zines add them to these collections and cataloging. I suggest that anyone that seriously thinks that copyright laws were violated to talk with a lawyer (or pick up any other zine or music book published in the past 30 years).

 

I fully understand people thinking she did a poor job covering the zine community and got facts wrong, which was a similar feeling people got from the book American Hardcore about the hardcore scene. And maybe, like with American Hardcore, there will be a revised edition with all the corrections in a few more years. But I doubt it, I can't see very many people buying a book about zines today, my guess is the publisher loses a bunch of money on it. I just hate to see the complete lack of understanding of copyright and the weird expectations and sense of entitlement people putting out zines today have. You publish, you create something for the world to read and see, it will get written about, reviewed, cataloged, and remembered. Well, if you're lucky.

 

I got into zine publishing through the punk scene in the late '80s. Back then it was "No rules!" Zines were the wild west of publishing. We violated copyright constantly, stole postage, scammed copies, and tried to print as many copies as possible as cheaply as possible. It was like the pirate radio of publishing. It's such a different world today in some ways, but in others, it's still the wild west of publishing and I hate to see it lose everything that makes it different from the mainstream press. Zinesters whining about copyright violation, who would have ever thought?

 

Elaine said:

We should be HAPPY someone ripped us off? That's like saying we should be happy someone emptied out our apartment before we got home, so our things could be admired by other people.

Sorry---this is copyright violation.  I would feel completely ripped off if mine were in there.  Fortunately they aren't, but I've had original soft sculpture designs stolen three times, one by a store who sent the design to China and had 5,000 dolls produced. It cost me $$$ to get a copyright lawyer and get my copyright honored. All the payment I got from the guy basically went to paying the lawyer. 

Theft is theft. 

Joseph Delgado said:

I think those zine publishers who have had their work published in this new book should be happy that they are getting some critical exposure; i
Her ONLY mistake?   Okay.... she called Zine World an e-Zine.  Is that not a mistake?   A rather LARGE mistake?

Joseph Delgado said:
 TRiggs only mistake is to assume that anarchist/feminist fanzines are the only zines being/ or have been made...her mistake was to focus on that subgenre rather than an expansive treatise on the varied styles and types of zines being produced.
You really are an idiot.  If someone is publishing a BOOK that is supposed to have FACTS about zines.... you don't think those FACTS need to be correct?

Joseph Delgado said:
Not really, come on, Ive been in the zine world a long time and only heard of zine world roughly a year ago...perhaps she just assumed it was an e-zine since they do keep an updated web page...again assuming that all zinesters engage in conventional dialogue with things like zine world...there are many long time zinesters i trade with who never heard of zine world and we have been doing this for twenty years...what exactly is your point? Again people need to stop whining about such trivalities and enjoy the pleasure of being read by a wider audience perhaps outside of the 'zine universe.' Its as if many have forgotten the true nature of zine making, the wild visceral aspect, a type of protest against conventions...its sad that many have forgotten the legacy in which underground publication was founded...and it goes back deep into history...

NicoleIntrovert said:
Her ONLY mistake?   Okay.... she called Zine World an e-Zine.  Is that not a mistake?   A rather LARGE mistake?

Joseph Delgado said:
 TRiggs only mistake is to assume that anarchist/feminist fanzines are the only zines being/ or have been made...her mistake was to focus on that subgenre rather than an expansive treatise on the varied styles and types of zines being produced.

It's not trivial and it's not a discussion when others opinions are shot down.

 

Some people are fine with being 'read by a larger audience', others most definately are not.  Trying to imply that everything here is kosher and ok pretty much says that anyone with a differing opinion isn't worth listening to.  I thought it was allowed that a person can have their own opinion for their own reasons and not be nitpicked to death for having it.

Josef Belgada writes riot grrrl zines.

I hope Kanye West does not get angry that I ripped him off by reposting that cover without getting his permission first.

 

OH NOES HIS CONTENT HAS BEEN STOLEN.

I dunno. When one person dominates a 'discussion' it usually ceases to be a discussion.

It is and I'm really curious about what that means as copyright in the US and Uk are different, including that in the US we have right of first sale and in the UK they do not.

Nichole said:

Is the book Trigg's wrote copyrighted? Without proper credit and citations, does that mean that all works within the book are also copyrighted and owned under that publisher?

 

Just a curious question I have, is all. If it is, would that make the publication itself ironic?

 

 

I have a hard time looking at anything as a single issue and I know that my years of experience in DIY and punk have filtered my ethics into and "us" vs. "them" mentality sometimes and there are lots of issues going on in this situation.

There may be a logical disconnect that stealing thousands of dollars in copies from Kinko's was ok for me, but stealing from a small local business was not. In my head there is a very large difference between this huge slick coffee table-esque book being published and someone cobbling a zine together of images of zines they like. I doubt you could get it distributed in Urban Otfitters for $40 a book.

  After being involved with zines for over 15 years I'm tired of people telling me that I should be thankful when something I created is used for profit without my permission, which has happened several times. I can totally understand that notoriety and larger distribution could be something other people might enjoy, but I just don't. I would like that opinion to be respected. Part of my DIY ethic is that I want the control of my own distribution, that's why I printed and distributed my book myself even though I was approached by others to publish it.

I have a problem when someone misuses power and authority on the backs of others especially, in this case, where the book is supposed to be representative and celebratory of a specific community. Now, don't get me wrong, I am under no illusion that there is any cohesive "zine community". There are lots and lots and lots of groups and even solitary people creating zines and the only real thing we have in common, in my opinion, is that we all enjoy print media as a hobby. I respect that everyone uses zines as a difference medium and a difference vehicle, and I'd like my view to be respected. That being said, I feel that erring on the side of caution is always the best option in every situation.

 

As to the numerous factual inaccuracies: For better or for worse I think we expect a higher level of quality from an academic (as Teal Trigg's is) and a main stream publisher that I would think would do a better job at covering their ass in the legal sense. It does not logically follow that because there are inaccuracies in other books that we should just accept them in this one. Aside from copyright issues and being disingenuous to zine creators celebrating this book is rewarding bad behavior and lazy research.

What the fuck are you talking about? The dude posted some chill, well thought out responses to comments other people have made. How is that AT ALL domination? It has all been back and forth.

 

You are crazy.

Elaine said:

I dunno. When one person dominates a 'discussion' it usually ceases to be a discussion.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Groups

Want to advertise here?

Ist preference given to distros and zines. Rates and details are here. Limited space. Very Low Cost!

Please Support Our Sponsors

Sweet Candy Distro

Con Artist Collective

Ker-bloom! Letterpress Zine

 

© 2014   Created by Krissy PonyBoy Press.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service