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I just got this e-mail:

"Dear Ramsey

I am currently completing a book called FANZINES (Thames & Hudson) and have included the cover of List Goodbye, Baltimore, no. 12 (fall 2008), fully credited in the book.

My book looks at the history of fanzines in a general overview of UK and USA-based self-publishing. As a good example of an interesting contemporary personal zine it would be remiss not to include it in any history of fanzines. The book is due out in September and I hope this will establish the importance of this form of self-publishing.

I do hope this is okay.

Yours sincerely,

Prof Teal Triggs
University of the Arts London

Poor form right? I know a lot of zinesters don't care about their things being reproduced or used, and I actually don't mind at all for it to be included, but it seems like asking ahead of time would be the right thing to do, right? Especially for a book?

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I think people have every right to be angry. Apart fromt the fact that it isn't legal to publish people's work without clearing permissions first, It's really a question of simple curtesy. and to not even ask but 'inform' the people who form the very backbone of her work speaks a lot to Teal Trigg's attitude. It's not good enough, and she would know better. And the publishers know better.

Jack Cheiky said:
i agree. it is honest and appropriate to be angry about what happened to amber.
as for the rest of it, i stand pat on my previous comments.
So... if someone is in favor of a project, but has complaints about the way a project is put together, they're a hypocrite? What a black-and-white world you must live in, where there is no room to critique even people you respect.

Jack Cheiky said:anyone who who says i'm honored to be included, then turns around and bad mouths triggs is a hypocrite.
Hey Jack,

I just wanted to say that I was actually glad to read your rather confrontational responses on this matter yesterday. You've said a lot of what I wanted to say, to which I now add the word "witch hunt." You took the word right out of a response I started drafting yesterday which expressed that same point.

I didn't send that response, though, because it has felt pretty useless to me to get involved when so many seem to be in the dark about what is and isn't legal regarding copyright. And it never would have occurred to me that it might take a law degree or even a high school diploma to comprehend "fair use," but I have since placed the dunce cap atop my head and exiled myself to the corner for that error in judgment.

The funny thing about this discussion is how utterly fucking insulated it makes zine makers look -- even to me, another zine maker. For the first few days I actually felt myself wanting to disassociate myself from this site for fear of being convicted by association; that was more my own frustration with this discussion than anything else, though.

Ramsey started out this discussion appropriately enough, asking for opinions on whether how Ms. Triggs handled this issue was a blow against proper etiquette. And we all know that Biblical proverb on 'opinions' and 'assholes'...

Nevertheless, opinions on etiquette are fair game, but declarations of what is and isn't legal is a whole 'nother ball of wax. And is anybody really gonna get "lawyered up" (meaning file a lawsuit) over this?

Maybe it's a combination of so many things that bugs me about this discussion, some of which has to do with the 'sticking it to the establishment' mentality, followed by the emotion-driven 'shoot first and ask questions later' mentality, followed by the insular 'let's circle the wagons' mentality.

There's also that whole witch hunt angle, and the inescapable reality that this discussion is largely driven by so much sour grapes over poor little zine makers seeing themselves being exploited -- yet again -- for the bargain price of $28 US.

But then, that's just my opinion.

Jack Cheiky said:
this whole thing started like a witch hunt.
Actually Paco, given that Thames and Hudson is a UK publisher, and that they are reproducing images from a number of nations, it's not so simple to declare they are covered under the US fair use law. I mean, that''s not a law that exists in that form in the UK, it's a bit less permissive.


I still believe people are entitled to be annoyed, but you can of course disagree.
I'm familiar with the allowances under Fair dealing as well, Candace. But it's good that you've posted a link here for those abroad who feel that they will have some legal claim against a publisher in the UK for a book they too have still yet to see.
Has anyone tried contacting the publisher directly rather than trying to deal with her? If enough people contact the publisher, they may have second thoughts about publishing the first run at this time.
Yup, sounds like they're both on the same page. That's really disappointing.
Given the responses many have received, I doubt Ms. Triggs nor the publisher care much about how a bunch a zine makers feel, and I'm sure they feel they can excuse their poor form in handling the "research" and "obtaining permissions" for this book because she's a professor and they're a publisher.

Anyhow, here is the Amazon link to the book. While I doubt many average people will read the well-written articles people like Amber had written (which is a shame), a lot of people do read reviews on Amazon. I guess it can be a way to tell your story about this whole debacle and how you feel about it so the general public will see it.

I don't think you can start reviewing until the book comes out, but I do believe you can start forum discussions.
In 1977 I was publishing a punk fanzine called Septic Ears. One day I got an invite to a book launch in London, so I trolled up there as pleased as anything to be invited to a real world punk book launch (I was fifteen, give me credit). When I got there I was amazed to discover that the book being launched contained a whole bunch of stuff from my fanzine. In fact the whole book was made up of stuff they'd just stolen from punk zines - and they never even mentioned the fact to us, not then, not ever. So we just stole as many copies as we could carry, drank all the alcohol and did a runner.
Some things never change - there are always careers to be made in the space.
Did anyone go to the launch this week?
Nichole said:
I don't think you can start reviewing until the book comes out, but I do believe you can start forum discussions.

*off to amazon uk to start a discussion complete with relivant links*
I've started a discussion here

I've seen negative reviews attacking rip-offs on boxsets & cd reissues, before they're actually up for sale before now so I think it's possible to review pre-release items (at least on amazon uk)


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