how do y'all feel about this?

[ramsey everydaypants]

I just got this e-mail:

"Dear Ramsey

I am currently completing a book called FANZINES (Thames & Hudson) and have included the cover of List / Goodbye, Baltimore, no. 12 (fall 2008), fully credited in the book.

My book looks at the history of fanzines in a general overview of UK and USA-based self-publishing. As a good example of an interesting contemporary personal zine it would be remiss not to include it in any history of fanzines. The book is due out in September and I hope this will establish the importance of this form of self-publishing.

I do hope this is okay.

Yours sincerely,

Prof Teal Triggs
University of the Arts London
"

Poor form right? I know a lot of zinesters don't care about their things being reproduced or used, and I actually don't mind at all for it to be included, but it seems like asking ahead of time would be the right thing to do, right? Especially for a book?

[Jenna Freedman]

Amen, sister!

I don't have the book in front of me, so consider this and my previous statement not fact checked. The not alphabetized bib--it's in the style of end notes, or cast lists: in order of appearance.



Aj Michel said:

Not even alphabetized!? Sure, maybe it's an "art" book, but that doesn't mean it has to be unusable. Lack of indexing =/= indie cred, you know?

[Bradley Adita]

REALLY? and Christopher Columbus discovered the New World! Yes!

BTW: this book is selling for $40 in the USA. (not $28)



Dan 10things said:

I'm pretty stoked just that someone has made a first attempt at recording something that no one has before.

[Erica S.]

This is not the "first attempt" at recording zine history. It's not even the first attempt at recording zine history THIS YEAR; Alison Piepmeier's very carefully researched "Girl Zines" managed to record zine history without dismissing the very people she was profiling. But then, Piepmeier actually discussed zines in her book, she didn't just slap a bunch of covers on a page.

Also, if you have to bring up your age to win an argument, you've already lost.



Dan 10things said:

Unless there are really bad factual errors that change history, I'm pretty stoked just that someone has made a first attempt at recording something that no one has before. I should point out I've worked in libraries all my life and work on ZineWiki, I'm a huge fan of trying to document things for history. I'd love it if people cut this book a little slack, most of you are probably too young to have read most of the zines covered in the zine books of the '80s and '90s, but there were lots of errors in those books as well, but when you read them they still give you an overall impression of what the zines were about and how awesome the micro publishing scene and publishing a zine is. I'd try looking at the sum of the parts, rather than just how your zine was or was not part of it. It seems like the author's heart was in the right place and that zines could use some greater attention right now outside of the usual circles, with a major book may be able to bring (although I doubt it).

[Dan 10things]

Erica S. said:

This is not the "first attempt" at recording zine history.

I didn't say it was the first attempt to record zine history, as I said in the same post, most of the zine books of the 80s and 90s also had a lot of factual errors. Hence I know there are a ton of zine books... I did a library exhibit on zinebooks and probably own more than anyone here. I tracked down a bunch of the old '80s ones like Gunderloy published. From the description though, it sounds like this was trying to do something different than past books, hence my comment about doing something new. It better have been different, otherwise there isn't really a point in putting it out. The American Hardcore book was rife with errors, but is still an awesome book for what it attempted to do. I'm hoping this is similar. Honestly, if you read a lot of books on music history like I do, you realize that every attempt by someone to document things that aren't well recorded is always rife with mistakes and factual errors.

[Sticky Institute]

Hi all,
I contacted all the Australian zinemakers who had zines I recognised in the book as soon as I got a copy of the book a couple of weeks ago (I asked Teal for a copy as soon as I found out my zine was in the book). Here is a list of the Australian zines I contacted:

Mix Tape
In Sickness
YOU
D90
Dates I've Been On And Not Been on
Pretty Ugly
More Love Truth And Honesty
Notes And Errata
You Stink and I Don't
Local Anaesthetic
Just Like Candy
Girls With Guns
By The Time You're 25

There is also The Alien Invader and Downunder featured in the book which I did not know how to contact.

Luke/Sticky.





Aj Michel said:

OK, this is a VERY BIG favor to ask... but for people who received complimentary copies of the book, could you possibly post a list of all the zines pictured in it? I realize that it will be quite a bit of work, but some zine publishers who were never contacted should know that they were used in this book.

Maybe if a few people have the book, they can divide it into sections to ease the workload?

[Bradley Adita]

Dan 10things, what about the description of this book made you think that this might be something different than past zine books? Im asking you in earnest. We've seen books before that have collected the covers of fanzines - and we have seen better texts on the history, issues, and niches within the world of zines. We've also seen books that have combined the visual aspects of zines with accompaning text. Triggs' book isn't really a book focused on the graphic design of zines either. Basically her book demostrates that she has a sizeable zine collection - many of which are from the United Kingdom and including enough rare titles and issues to warrant publishing them in a book and that she has enough of an understanding of zine history and culture to give the reader a broad enough overview. Then you have the whole issue of not clearing her images before hand. ++++ Is this another account of zine forms and culture? ...No doubt. But to what extent is it mundane, if not just bad? I think its more than you've let on.

[Elaine]

It's called copyright infringement.

Sending a letter to the publisher or distributor can have the book held and changed, since this is a pretty cut and dried legal matter (if you care to pursue it). Even if he's self publishing, the distributor would not be keen on doing anything with the book if there's a legal claim against it. You do still have options.

[Erica S.]

So hey, anyone who's keeping track of this heard about the dust-up around Cook's Source magazine? It's the same situation: for-profit magazine lifts article from blog, doesn't even tell writer, then when she finds out, says writer should be grateful that CS stole the article because it's exposure and the editor made a number of (unwanted, un-known-about) edits to the article anyway. Of course, we've got some of the "you should be grateful they stole!" people right here in our own community.....

[Elaine]

Doesn't make it right.

The copyright office has a page on what to do if this happens.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-infringement.html
A legal thing on the internet gives a cease and decist letter with demands for payment--
http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/cheese.htm

Also worth looking at is the info online about what to do if you're accused of copyright infringement (to show what's being given to the offended parties)
http://kb.iu.edu/data/ahmf.html

[mujinga]

Wow what a scumbag, to steal people's DIY creations.

"It's very clear from her writing that she is interested in the "look" of zines as a graphic designer and seems to care very little about the content"

Ain't that the truth! I had a quick flick through the book at the ICA bookshop. I think it was £20. The only cool thing about it was to see some friends' zines in it but now i'm going to contact them to see if they know they are in it. I definitely would not pay £20 for that.

[Erica S.]

Oh, I totally agree that it is unprofessional, illegal, and the actions of a complete asshole. But some people here seem to think that "exposure" excuses blatant acts of plagiarism and copyright infringement. Okay, maybe only two people.

People who have seen the book: are there any shots of the interiors of the zines or just the covers?

Elaine said:

Doesn't make it right.

The copyright office has a page on what to do if this happens.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-infringement.html
A legal thing on the internet gives a cease and decist letter with demands for payment--
http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/cheese.htm

Also worth looking at is the info online about what to do if you're accused of copyright infringement (to show what's being given to the offended parties)
http://kb.iu.edu/data/ahmf.html

[Bree Adorn]

i received my contributors copy in the mail on friday. just flipping through and seeing the covers of some friends or important zines to me was neat. but that's the highest note i can give this book. i believe someone already said this, but is indeed just a publication of her zine collection laid out in a pretty way. what a disappointment in so many ways.