how do y'all feel about this?

[ramsey everydaypants]

I just got this e-mail:

"Dear Ramsey

I am currently completing a book called FANZINES (Thames & Hudson) and have included the cover of List / Goodbye, Baltimore, no. 12 (fall 2008), fully credited in the book.

My book looks at the history of fanzines in a general overview of UK and USA-based self-publishing. As a good example of an interesting contemporary personal zine it would be remiss not to include it in any history of fanzines. The book is due out in September and I hope this will establish the importance of this form of self-publishing.

I do hope this is okay.

Yours sincerely,

Prof Teal Triggs
University of the Arts London
"

Poor form right? I know a lot of zinesters don't care about their things being reproduced or used, and I actually don't mind at all for it to be included, but it seems like asking ahead of time would be the right thing to do, right? Especially for a book?

[Alex Wrekk]

I too received the same message yesterday and this isn't the first time my work has been included in a book without asking. I wrote a message to say as much and that i would have thought the publisher would have insisted for that work to be done ahead of time. I would have been ok being included but it odd for a book to be about fanzines and their culture and not treat the subjects with courtesy and respect.

[Alex Wrekk]

Alex Wrekk said:

I too received the same message yesterday and this isn't the first time my work has been included in a book without asking. I wrote a message to say as much and that i would have thought the publisher would have insisted for that work to be done ahead of time. I would have been ok being included but it odd for a book to be about fanzines and their culture and not treat the subjects with courtesy and respect.
Also, I'm making a note of this to talk about at the Portland Zine Symposium in the Zine Ethics discussion.

[Aj Michel]

I work in academic publishing (journals, specifically), and authors are supposed to have all clearances, permissions, etc for illustrations, excerpts and so forth well before the issue is about to go to press. What most likely happened here is that during one of the final reviews of the proofs, someone finally thought to ask, "Hey, did you get permissions to use these images?"... and the author set out on a mad rush to gather them.

Really, I'm not surprised at the fact that they didn't go through the proper procedures to get permissions. When I've had to ask authors for their documentation for Figure X or Photo Y or Chart Z, so many times they just say, "Oh, it was online. I got it from Google." So frustrating. And, I'm near the end of the "production" line - the art/typesetting/physical production area - so all of these things should have been taken care of when the manuscript was first fully accepted, not right before the pages are to go to press.

It's kind of shocking that a book that probably has a large visual component to it got so far in the production process without checking permissions.

[anna p]

i agree with the general vibe of the comments here: everyone whose work is reproduced should have been asked for their permission *prior* to the publication being finalised, and you should all be receiving at least one copy of the publication in which your work appears.

it's disappointing to see an academic of triggs' standing treating zine makers like this.

[Nichole]

I received a response from Ms. Triggs this morning.

Dear Nichole,

Many thanks for your email and sharing with me these concerns. I wanted to let you know that I fully appreciate your comments and do take these on board.

However, I also would like to respond to two points:

‘Sending it at the same time (when your book is due out)’.
The majority of permissions were obtained well in advance. In the interim, personal circumstances prevailed and unfortunately, when reviewing the list recently, I noted a small group of emails had fallen through the gaps. Hence the late notifications. I am trying to rectify this situation by contacting as many before publication as I can. I certainly realise this is less than satisfactory. All I can do is apologise profusely.

‘Maybe zines aren't a big deal to you...’
I have been involved in the zine community for nearly 20 years and I am as passionate about zines as I was the first day I came across one growing up in the States. As a collector and design historian, I am asked to speak frequently on the subject in the UK, Australia and the US, at zine fayres and symposia, the women’s library, to students, etc. The majority of these talks are done gratis as I feel it important to give back what support I can. The book has emerged out of my conversations with zine producers over the years and a passion for the subject. Many of the zinesters featured in the book are friends.

This is not an excuse, but rather a clarification.

Best wishes and apologies once again – it was certainly never my intention to hurt anybody’s feelings.
Teal

[Rebel Jane Mills]

This happened to me with many photographs of mine, one guy contacted me 2 days before their release asking if it was okay, they didn't even credit. I was pissed! Very poor form indeed.

If it were up to me, I would say no permission, no deal. But I'm old and jaded ;)

[James N. Dawson]

I don't want to sound insenstive or dismissive, but I don't think I'd've been very bothered by this. In fact, I might even have been flattered, but if so, just a little. I'd also feel hypocritical criticizing the Professor, given my own views & practices on copyrights:

http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/copyrights-courtesy

Recently, old-time zinester Lisa B. Falour, creator of Bikini Girl, displayed and talked about my zine .Zap!!omania on YouTube. She didn't ask permission, and I never expected her to. I took her action as a well-intentioned favor and a compliment. Of course I'm not saying that other zinesters should. Just giving my reaction.

More and more, I'm confused and clueless about what's acceptable. Is publishing a physical address on the envelope I get a zine in, WITHOUT PERMISSION, acceptable? Or is doing so WRONG, an insensitive violation of somebody's privacy? (In the contact zine I'm planning, my plan is to reserve the right to publish any physical address i come across, unless CLEARLY told not to.)

Everything seems so much more restrictive, "Mother May I", these days.

But I'll grant, the tone of the letter did seem a little "cheerily" condescending.

[Erica S.]

That's funny, James, I was wondering if YOU have any setting other than "condescending."

I am glad to hear that she's responding to emails. I think she realizes that she's made a mistake, and really, there should have been multiple people (publisher, editor, etc) checking up on this, not just the author. I really hate the "personal circumstances" line, though. Yeah, and the zinesters might have important "personal" reasons for not wanting certain names or addresses to be published without consent... it's not a reason for flouting copyright.

Does anyone know what zine (if any) she used to write?

[Nichole]

Anastasia said:

Showing a zine in a video for review is an entirely different thing than copying contents from that zine and publishing it for profit in a book. One's fair use, the other is stealing.

Agreed. Someone profiting from another's work is different than reviewing someone's zine in a video, at least I think. All my zines are Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike under Creative Commons, so if someone were to feature my work in a book that most likely will be under some sort of strict copyright and sold for commercial purposes, I would be a little irked. Share, remix, build on my work, I don't care. Just give me credit and agree to use it for non-commercial purposes.

It's not the end of the world, I know, but it still...

[Becky the Evil Flower]

James:

You're publishing someones ADDRESS without permission? I don't think that is acceptable. I think that is rude. Just because someone gives their address to you doesn't mean that they want you publishing it for anyone to see. I realize zinesters give out their address all they time, but they should have the right to chose when and how it is given out.

[Yvonne G.]

what shocked me was finding out that this very book is being published by Thames & Hudson, a UK publisher of "illustrated books on art, architecture, design and visual culture", from whom i've bought some books on graphic design and art theory in the past, and had a really good impression about. i got an email-newsletter from them today, and there it was... i was like "WTF??"

they're on Facebook and posted a link about this book, and about an upcoming reading-room/gallery exhibition for the book's publication, with London College of Communication's Zine Archive and the author's zine collection... If it wasn't enough what happened with the book's credits, they're "inviting submissions" (as in zines) from zinesters for the upcoming event. gotta have some nerve, no?

all this looks rather odd to me; the books seems to be all ready for distribution, i saw it in the Thames & Hudson current catalog, dated September 2010 - http://thamesandhudson.texterity.com/catalogue/2010autumn#pg77.
reading Ms. Triggs answer to Nichole's email where she says "I am trying to rectify this situation by contacting as many before publication as I can." this gets me a bit confused....... looks like a really lame excuse to me, but what do i know?

the Birmingham Zine Festival posted an interview with Teal Triggs, if anyone cares to read it.


Nichole said:

I received a response from Ms. Triggs this morning.
Dear Nichole,
Many thanks for your email and sharing with me these concerns. I wanted to let you know that I fully appreciate your comments and do take these on board.

However, I also would like to respond to two points:

‘Sending it at the same time (when your book is due out)’.
The majority of permissions were obtained well in advance. In the interim, personal circumstances prevailed and unfortunately, when reviewing the list recently, I noted a small group of emails had fallen through the gaps. Hence the late notifications. I am trying to rectify this situation by contacting as many before publication as I can. I certainly realise this is less than satisfactory. All I can do is apologise profusely.

‘Maybe zines aren't a big deal to you...’
I have been involved in the zine community for nearly 20 years and I am as passionate about zines as I was the first day I came across one growing up in the States. As a collector and design historian, I am asked to speak frequently on the subject in the UK, Australia and the US, at zine fayres and symposia, the women’s library, to students, etc. The majority of these talks are done gratis as I feel it important to give back what support I can. The book has emerged out of my conversations with zine producers over the years and a passion for the subject. Many of the zinesters featured in the book are friends.

This is not an excuse, but rather a clarification.

Best wishes and apologies once again – it was certainly never my intention to hurt anybody’s feelings.
Teal

[Nichole]

Great to know they're selling the book for almost 28 USD. Gotta love turning a profit from someone else's labor of love, you know?