etiquette and professionialsim

[CocoaPuss Zine]

if you order a zine from someone from here through paypal and they go more than a week or more without sending it you or sending you a note, what should you do? this person does not respond to comments on their page, so is the next step an email? i don't know if this person just disappeared off the face of the earth, but...

1. i REALLY wanted her zine.

2. i paid for it with my REAL money

3. if i don't get it by the end of the week, i'm going to start looking for ways to get my money back.

4. i kinda want to put this person on blast because i work really hard at mailing things out on time, all the time, and if i know i'm going to be even a day late, i send some sort of note explaining why and how. people pay me their money or trade with me, so i am responsible.

5. everyone on here has been LOVELY and refreshing and offered me so much help, i just get really bummed out when people just take my money, even $2 or $3 and rip me off.

any thoughts?

[Hannah Neurotica]

i have had a few people demand refunds after only waiting a week or two. it makes me sick that people are so fucking impatient.

[Hannah Neurotica]

wow this just makes me want to cry. people losing the true spirit of zine culture. fuckin' A!
CocoaPuss Zine said:

no i didn't get the zine. i just got the refund. and instead i bought a different zine from someone else. all of your zines are so good. i want to buy them all. it just sucks when i've been looking forward to something for so long and now i don't get it.

i understand that life is hard. i get that. i'm really sorry that she's sick, but i work damn hard for my money. it's a recession and i don't have money to just give away to people. it sucks that it happens this way sometimes.

i appreciate all your feedback and opinions.

[Hannah Neurotica]

you tell them girl! ;) i agree~!
bibliophile83 said:

Sometimes it's not as easy as just "getting off your ass and sending it."

We don't know the person's circumstances. Maybe their internet is down or something. Maybe a family emergency, who knows? Publishing a zine is not a business. People usually have jobs and a life outside of zines.

That's part of being a zinester. It sucks, but sometimes you lose your $2.

[Sarah Arr!]

Wow, yeah. I'm pretty shitty about filling zine orders sometimes. I do know that. But at the same time, I have a lot of other things going on in my life (work, school, family, relationship -- we've all got stuff to deal with). And my zine is a side project that I do that is apart from any of my everyday events.

That said, I still feel really lucky to be part of such a cool community peopled by such talented, clever folks. But I'm not too fussed if I have a little backlog of mail. It's a little backlog of mail. Zines are never going to pay my bills or really afford any nicer luxuries than a couple of drinks at best. That said, the things that affect my everyday life get the bulk of my attention.

As far as timing goes, the post is slow sometimes. Often I don't get a zine that someone mailed within a week. I just got a zine trade that I mailed a year ago. Sometimes you don't get them, and that sucks, but maybe that person moved or is out of town or decided to give up zinedom or died. It happens. More often you get it later than you expect and it's a lovely surprise.

The etiquette of zinedom is that yeah, you should send a note if you can't get to it right away. But sometimes that's not even feasible. It's as rude to be pushy and demanding on the internet (because I feel like most people wouldn't be as shirty in the really real world) as it is to be out of touch. If not more so. I'd never say: "Get over what you're doing. I gave you money so now you have to do what I say. Right now! Or else I'll call you out and report you to the (paypal) authorities! I don't care about your personal circumstances, do what I want!" To anyone, but maybe I'm a little more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. Above and beyond that, I think that zines and this forum in particular should encourage dialog.

"if you want to keep arguing about whether it's a business or not, that's fine, but there are plenty of other zine type things to disscuss. i got my answers now."

This strikes me as the original poster looking for someone to validate a tantrum, and dismissing the thread when he or she didn't get the desired response. Maybe that's just my interpretation though.

[courtney]

i agree with what ciara and a lot of other people are saying. it's not always simple and easy to mail a zine out like that. and people do have lives outside of their zine activity, regardless of some people responding that they find this excuse unacceptable.

guess what, sometimes really bad things happen to people, like a family member dies or they are in the hospital or they are very sick. how would you feel if someone posted a thread putting you "on blast" or about you being "unprofessional" when you are dealing with something like that?

in addition, with zines going out via post, sometimes they really honestly do get lost in the mail. not saying that this is or is not the case with your situation but as long as i have been involved with zines, i've seen them go missing plenty of times. and two weeks is really rather a short time to expect to receive a zine.

even if you did order it through paypal, that doesn't make it subject to same week delivery. you have to have a little trust in people. and faith. if you expect everything to come quickly and easily when dealing with zines, then you may be in the wrong place.

i would seriously consider giving someone a little more time before posting a very public thread about them and trying to make them answer to you publicly. maybe if this person ignored you for a month or two or three that would be different. in the old days, we waited a long time for zines or zine catalogs or zine review zines because that's just how it was. and even then sometimes they never arrived. as i'm sure you can tell from some of the responses here, a lot of us don't consider zines a business and we don't treat them as a business. they are much more personal and precious than 3 fucking dollars.

[Hannah Neurotica]

did you order a zine from me and not get it??

Dr. Danny Swank said:

This has happened to me as well. It's not so much about the money as it is about the principle of the matter, you know? I try to ship stuff off within a week, ten days at the very most, and even then I send an email or a note apologizing for what a lazy sack of shit I am.

And CocoaPuss, I can't help but wonder if we're talking about the same person...I don't want to slander anyone publicly and unnecessarily without just cause, but drop me a line (DrDannySwank@Gmail) if the mood strikes, because I think we are.

[Hannah Neurotica]

if you're zining isn't strictly a "business", you shouldn't publicize your zine, offer it for sale or trade
That just made me fall off my chair laughing. Wow. I feel so sad for the state of zines right now if people share your view. Shhhhiiiite. What happened to the good ol' days when people were making zine for art and expression and community and friendship? I guess if you think people who aren't "strictly business" shouldn't try to get there zines out that you are very very unaware of who and what zine culture is really about. shame on you.

James N. Dawson said:

I'm with CocoaPuss on this one.

Yes. Life happens. But it happens to all of us.

If life happens to you when you've gotten a zine order or trade offer, and you can't get it out in 10 days, do this. Make a postcard explaining that you're swamped and delayed for various reasons, and that you'll either refund the money or get the zine off as soon as you can. Write whatever else you want in what every style you choose. All you have to do is fold an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet into 4, put your brief message on each quarter, run off a few cardstock copies, and cut them into 4. When you get too busy, address them to the people you're having trouble getting back to, put a stamp on them and drop them in the outgoing mail. Have a stack of these pre-written "Sorry! Life's Happening" postcards ready, especially if you're one to need them often.

I don't understand what would be so difficult about stuffing a zine in an envelope, addressing it, putting on postage, and dropping it in the mail.

Obviously I'm exempting people who are in the hospital or very ill at home.

Even if you're zining isn't strictly a "business", you shouldn't publicize your zine, offer it for sale or trade, and then when you get trades & money, not follow through. Even a scatter-brained, swamped incompetent like me responsibly tends to his zine orders. If you can't, then I think it's only decent "etiquette" that you not publicly advertise you zine, or at least make it clear you may be late in sending it with said ad.

[Hannah Neurotica]

what money are u fucking giving a way??? if it was refunded then what was the point of bitching????

CocoaPuss Zine said:

no i didn't get the zine. i just got the refund. and instead i bought a different zine from someone else. all of your zines are so good. i want to buy them all. it just sucks when i've been looking forward to something for so long and now i don't get it.

i understand that life is hard. i get that. i'm really sorry that she's sick, but i work damn hard for my money. it's a recession and i don't have money to just give away to people. it sucks that it happens this way sometimes.

i appreciate all your feedback and opinions.

[Hannah Neurotica]

Wow. So not only do you have weird sense of entitlement but your cutting off a really good chance at dialogue. where is your community spirit? fuckin a!
CocoaPuss Zine said:

exchanging money makes it a business. i'm buying something from her.

all of this is over and done with now. if you want to keep arguing about whether it's a business or not, that's fine, but there are plenty of other zine type things to disscuss. i got my answers now.

[Hannah Neurotica]

" if you're zining isn't strictly a "business", you shouldn't publicize your zine, offer it for sale or trade"


I find this REPULSIVE and sad. Therefore I am asking for about 4 or 5 people to chim in and come on the show to discuss WHY they make zines and how they view the business side of this art.

PLEASE PLEASE come on the show! this is a subject i really need many perspectives on. Especially people who are both old and new to zine making as technology has changed how we order zines and what we expect from each other.

All you need to be on the show is a phone!

get in touch and tell me what timezone you are in and what day/time of day you are free. OR you can record yourself answering some questions as an MP3 i can play that too.

[e-mail]

www.blogtalkradio.com/thezineshow

[Persephone Pomegranate]

"if you're zining isn't strictly a "business", you shouldn't publicize your zine, offer it for sale or trade"

Wow, I'm completely blown away by this statement and the fact that so many people here seem to agree. Every time I do a run of zines I lose money, but you know what? That's not the fucking point! I do zines because I have something to say. Something that I feel will benefit both myself and others to put out there. The only reason I charge the $1.50 that I do is so that I can offset a bit of my costs and afford to do it at all. And trades are my favorite, getting to meet someone new or correspond with someone I haven't had a chance to catch up with in a while. It's all about the community and friendships, the opposite of a business.

[Dan 10things]

Angie Bowen said:

"if you're zining isn't strictly a "business", you shouldn't publicize your zine, offer it for sale or trade"

Wow, I'm completely blown away by this statement and the fact that so many people here seem to agree.

I don't think anyone agreed. Strictly a business is waaaay overboard from saying there are business aspects to doing a zine (selling, mailing, distro, possibly advertising).