etiquette and professionialsim

[CocoaPuss Zine]

if you order a zine from someone from here through paypal and they go more than a week or more without sending it you or sending you a note, what should you do? this person does not respond to comments on their page, so is the next step an email? i don't know if this person just disappeared off the face of the earth, but...

1. i REALLY wanted her zine.

2. i paid for it with my REAL money

3. if i don't get it by the end of the week, i'm going to start looking for ways to get my money back.

4. i kinda want to put this person on blast because i work really hard at mailing things out on time, all the time, and if i know i'm going to be even a day late, i send some sort of note explaining why and how. people pay me their money or trade with me, so i am responsible.

5. everyone on here has been LOVELY and refreshing and offered me so much help, i just get really bummed out when people just take my money, even $2 or $3 and rip me off.

any thoughts?

[Dr. Danny Swank]

This has happened to me as well. It's not so much about the money as it is about the principle of the matter, you know? I try to ship stuff off within a week, ten days at the very most, and even then I send an email or a note apologizing for what a lazy sack of shit I am.

And CocoaPuss, I can't help but wonder if we're talking about the same person...I don't want to slander anyone publicly and unnecessarily without just cause, but drop me a line (DrDannySwank@Gmail) if the mood strikes, because I think we are.

[NicoleIntrovert]

I think waiting only a week is jumping the gun a bit. Life happens.. and zines aren't anyone's full time job.

I would wait probably a good month. If it's through Pay Pal you have 45 days to report a "no send".

[CocoaPuss Zine]

i checked my paypal record last night. it's been over two weeks. if i pay you for something, get off your ass and send it. i send everything out no later than the next day and i have a full time job and a two year old. if i can be professional, then other people can too. plain and simple.

there is no way i am waiting a month. 7-10 business days is fair. i have gotten zines from the UK in 7-10 days and it was just a trade.

[Dan 10things]

They could be on vacation... but yeah, I'd expect at least an email saying thanks for the order, it will ship in a week. Back in the pre-Internet days, it sometimes took a month or two to get a zine (or record) by mailorder, I never freaked out about it, I always figured it would come eventually. Email and Paypal have sped up the contact and paying process, but zinesters can still be unorganized, slackers, or travel around a lot.

[Erin H]

Sometimes it's not as easy as just "getting off your ass and sending it."

We don't know the person's circumstances. Maybe their internet is down or something. Maybe a family emergency, who knows? Publishing a zine is not a business. People usually have jobs and a life outside of zines.

That's part of being a zinester. It sucks, but sometimes you lose your $2.

[raequel aka systris]

either way, if you bought it via paypal, you will have to wait at least 30-45 days after the fact to lodge a complaint. while i agree that they could at least send you an email letting you know what's up, again, unless they specifically promised you expedited service - your order is probably among others that are in a pile on a desk. i can sympathize with you about zinesters who do flake out, i've had to go to paypal twice on two specific zinesters, with one person they did end up sending me the zines after paypal lit a fire up under them, and the other weaseled out of the paypal transaction and NEVER sent me my zine or money back, and i was extremely patient and at least wanted a reply to my email where there was NONE...however since the zine in question was widely distroed, i just ordered them from a reputable distro so i know that i'd be getting it.

my advice seek out distros first because they will have the infrastructure to deal with quick turnaround times and be able to get in touch with you (if they are serious about running it), otherwise unless you know the person or arent in a hurry - then buy direct.

[CocoaPuss Zine]

i just got a refund. i treat my zine like it's a business. i like to do it and it's a hobby but it's also a business. i'm pretty sure i bought it through a distro. i really wanted to read it too. oh well.

[James N. Dawson]

I'm with CocoaPuss on this one.

Yes. Life happens. But it happens to all of us.

If life happens to you when you've gotten a zine order or trade offer, and you can't get it out in 10 days, do this. Make a postcard explaining that you're swamped and delayed for various reasons, and that you'll either refund the money or get the zine off as soon as you can. Write whatever else you want in what every style you choose. All you have to do is fold an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet into 4, put your brief message on each quarter, run off a few cardstock copies, and cut them into 4. When you get too busy, address them to the people you're having trouble getting back to, put a stamp on them and drop them in the outgoing mail. Have a stack of these pre-written "Sorry! Life's Happening" postcards ready, especially if you're one to need them often.

I don't understand what would be so difficult about stuffing a zine in an envelope, addressing it, putting on postage, and dropping it in the mail.

Obviously I'm exempting people who are in the hospital or very ill at home.

Even if you're zining isn't strictly a "business", you shouldn't publicize your zine, offer it for sale or trade, and then when you get trades & money, not follow through. Even a scatter-brained, swamped incompetent like me responsibly tends to his zine orders. If you can't, then I think it's only decent "etiquette" that you not publicly advertise you zine, or at least make it clear you may be late in sending it with said ad.

[Becca Darling]

I'm going to have to say that I'm kind of torn with this issue a bit.

I'm pretty sure there are still trades that I was supposed to do or orders that I was supposed to send out, but life seriously kicked me in the ass and made it really hard for a while. I e-mailed a lot of people apologizing if I was supposed to trade with them or send an order out to them, but I never got any responses back so I suppose I did good on my part.

However, I understand being upset. Even though zine-ing is a hobby, when it comes to sending stuff out, it should be treated like a business and people should at least be notified. However (again), life does happen and there could have been an emergency like a death, or maybe the zinester themself gets injured, lack of internet, etc. Because, I'm sorry, if someone in my family gets seriously injured or dies or if I get injured, the last thing on my mind will be sending my zine out. I'll still send out notification, but sending the zine would be the last thing on my mind.

It's good that you got your refund, but did you still get the zine?

[CocoaPuss Zine]

no i didn't get the zine. i just got the refund. and instead i bought a different zine from someone else. all of your zines are so good. i want to buy them all. it just sucks when i've been looking forward to something for so long and now i don't get it.

i understand that life is hard. i get that. i'm really sorry that she's sick, but i work damn hard for my money. it's a recession and i don't have money to just give away to people. it sucks that it happens this way sometimes.

i appreciate all your feedback and opinions.

[Shawn Granton]

I think this is a good example of how the internet has changed our expectations, with zines and just about everything else in life.

When I first started doing zines in the later '90s, all trading/buying happened through the mail. It was pretty average to wait two weeks to a month for something that you ordered. If it got to me sooner than that, I was positively thrilled!

Now with the interwebs, paypal, online payment via credit card, etc, it's totally possible to order something on Monday and receive it on Thursday. And believe me, people are betting on it these days. When I worked for Microcosm a few years back, sometimes people would write emails to complain that they haven't gotten their zines yet. This would be on Wednesday, and they ordered their zines Monday! And we worked seven days a week, 6 hours a day filling orders, it's not like we were ignoring them or something.

I've always been on the fence on whether I should treat my zines and comics more like a business. I do my best to get my zines out in a reasonable amount of time. But sometimes I'm out of a particular issue and I need to go make some more. And a lot of times I'm out of town for a week, two weeks, a month, two months. So of course I'm not going to get zines out during that time, nor can I send a postcard saying I'm away, etc. It would be great if I had a robot that can handle all that stuff while I'm away, but I don't think the technology's gotten there...yet.

[James N. Dawson]

I don't want to seem like a hardnose about all this, or a fussy impatient jerk. What I'm talking about mainly is people who seem totally negligent about sending you their zines at all, and think it's optional or something.

SHAWN: I realize you and others, being in the bike culture, are into travel, and I'd probably take it into account if I ordered a travel or bike zine. And yes, you're right, we may have gotten a bit too impatient about getting zines. I wish things were taken slower these days. Actually my impatience point is, oh, maybe in the 3 to 6 week range. Believe it or not, there are zines I've never gotten, even after 2 or 3 polite inquires over a period of months, maybe years. Of course, I'm over these by now, but I still suspect it's a breach of simple ettiquette that they never sent me anything, not even a postcard saying "I'm sorry. I just couldn't swing it" which I would've accepted.

What I'm saying to anybody who's selling or trading zines, realize there's going to be a little work and commitment involved and be prepared for it. It's not *all* fun and games all the time.