Do You Have a Physical Address Inside Your Zine?

[James N. Dawson]

I've gone on about this a little here and there in WMZ, so maybe there's not much point in rehashing it, but maybe it's worthwhile to approach it from another angle. I imagine I may step on some toes and get myself into trouble.

When reviewing zines, I sometimes got a few that didn't have any postal addresses for people to contact. At least one even seemed to discourage postal contact. The idea behind doing their zine was just to promote their web activity. That left me cold...and I'm getting colder still, the more I see of the new "zinedom".

How many of you refuse or refrain from publishing a physical address FOR OR IN your zine, either on the Internet or Papernet?

How many of you refuse to send your zine to Zine World because you don't want to have a physical address published?

If you don't mind having it published in Zine World or the papernet, then why are you concerned about publishing it on the Internet?

Does it concern you that when you make your zine available only to people with Internet access, you may be discluding people who cannot or choose not to access the Net?

I can see including Net addresses, but not Net addresses ONLY.

It seems that "zinedom" in it's present evolution (or devolution, depending on your perspective), is gradually becoming less and less friendly to the papernet AND PAPERNETTERS.

I remember the old Factsheet 5 and how awesome it was. This whole "web-centered" zinedom is such a far, sad cry from that. The old FS5 had the feel of an old basement flea market. The new webocentric "zine scene" has the feel of a suburban mall.

I'm seriously considering seceding from it. But would I just be cutting my hand off?

Something to ponder.

[Giz]

I refuse to send my zine to zine world because there is nothing wrote in english yet, not because of my address.

my place is hidden on stairs and only the postman could find it, and I love when he does, so I put my address on every zine. when you really enjoy something, you always end up by trading something, and you obviously need a postal address for it.

[Erin H]

I don't really think the zine world is so web-centered as you think. The internet zine community is very small when compared to everyone who makes zines. But even so, I don't mind the involvement of computers/the internet with zines. I mean, people are still making zines - the internet is just another way to connect and trade.

I have a PO box, so I always include my address and e-mail.

[Saling Pusa Distro/closed]

i havent included my physical address in amy of my zines YET because I still need to get a PO box. I've thought about putting my home address, but then again i know I'll be moving soon and will be moving a lot so i didn't see any point in putting my current address.

the internet really has been predominant the past years. but i dont think it can overtake or replace printed media--not for me, anyways. reading something from paper--something i can hold and bring along with me wherever i go appeals more to me. BUT we cannot deny how much more efficiant a lot of things has been since the internet. it's an innevitable change that we all muct accept in this fast-paced and demanding world. it's just like the shift from quill to pen or pen to typewriters, typewriters to computers, etc. one does not make it's predecessor completely obsolete, but you have to admit that the "newer thing" does have its pros.

i do appreciate corresponding my mail, the good ol cut'n'paste, etc. I like how "personal" it is. And sure the internet has replaced most face-to-face interactions likee meet ups for discusions, etc, but then again i cannot imagine how to connect with as many people with similar interests as i do without it.

times change and sometimes these advancements create a shift from art to efficacy, and yes it is sad. but then again maybe the shift was made because it's what the present time calls for. i.e. mailing costs money, email doesnt. paper is getting expensive, going paperless seems the only option to keep the zine in production, or maybe there is a shift in the sort of readers and followers we get too.

i think i strayed a bit in from this discussion, didn't i? lol. i tend to do that. :O my train of thought is kinda difficult to catch at times.

[Saling Pusa Distro/closed]

really? it's kinda difficult to imagine that :O what happens in college? or when you start working?

Zacery Nova said:

I plan to "quit" the internet in two years, when I finish Grade 12. I never thought about putting my address on my zine-thingy. Mostly, 'cause I've never got orders via mail or anything.

[W. Alan Fare]

I feel your pain, James. I've never published anything that didn't have a physical address attached to it and never will. And I only take orders for my zines via snail mail too. I guess I exclude 'netters from my publications.

As for FS5, I really miss the first wave of the publication. Mike (Gunderloy) really had a way with words when describing what he got in the mail! Didn't really care for the person who took it over, can't even remember his name.

But alas, I'm still working on printed zines over 25 years after I started! And you still have to order them through the mail...

[rogerSIMIAN]

Interesting question, James.

"I'm seriously considering seceding from it. But would I just be cutting my hand off?"

I think you would if you did that. I can't see much good coming from getting so annoyed with the way other folk choose to engage with the zine world that you deprive yourself. The whole point of zines to me is that folk should be able to create the zines they want, in whatever way they choose, publicise them in whatever way seems most comfortable to them and decide for themselves at what level they want to engage with a wider zine community - rather than everybody conforming to some random set of rules that some other person has decided on. To me the "self-expression" aspect of zines is much more interesting than the "group-expression", if that makes sense.

I always think that when people are unhappy with the way things are heading they should lead by example - create the zine world around them that they want to be part of - rather than trying to change everybody else through criticism to fit their own model.

To answer the main question, though: yeah, I usually put my PO Box in my zines 'cause it's nice getting mail that you can read on a bus or in the bath. It doesn't necessarily mean that I have zines available for folk to trade or buy, though. I've often made a limited run zine (like my recent microzine) that I only ever intend to send to a few select folk.

cheers
rS :-)

[James N. Dawson]

Thanks everybody for the replies.

As usual, and in the final analysis, it's my fault, but I've failed to really convey WHY I feel the way I do about zines without physical addresses in them. Say, metaphorically perhaps, that *I* represent *zinedom*. When I got a zine in the mail with a review request and no physical address---it felt like a young, "cool" person, "looking right through me". A total disregard for the old "non-techie" culture, a culture that is dying.

Prisoners and a small minority of zine/mail/correspondence enthusiasts CANNOT write to or respond to a zine without a physical address. If something they see in your zine inspires or offends them, or evokes a need to comment, postively, negatively, or mixed, they are EFFECTIVELY silenced---THEIR need and desire to participate, ignored. I'm at the very borderline of computer competence. Some forums are almost impossible for me to participate in. They're just to thick, fast, confusing and complicated for me. (A couple days ago with this original post this text box was very glitchy and the cursor was randomly hopping around frome here to there whenever I tried to correct or edit. It took me forever to complete and was another of a million wearisome techno-chores. Today, it's works fine, but it doesn't always.)

Okay, so what's it you? Why should you feel responsible for the few neanderthals who can't or won't use the Net? Well, if you say that and go on about compassion, respect and inclusiveness, then I think your "idealism" is phony and hollow.

ROGER: You're right. Everybody should be allowed to choose their own way of communicating, their own media or combinations thereof. What I'm saying, what I'm asking myself, is how much time and bother do I want to invest in a "zine scene" that seems to be gradually but constantly, insidiously, shifting into a 99% electronic phenomenon---and not only THAT, but one that is increasingly ultra-high-tech-trendy (and which I have less and less and less a clue about). I know you aren't doing it out of spite, it's just very alienating.

Something, I AM SURE, IS being lost in the decimation of the papernet, and it's not just sentimentalism, or wanting to hold a paper in your hands, or a personal connection. Something is happening to the long-term psychology of the community, the whole structure, pace, rythm, AND QUALITY of communication. But I've done a terrible job of proving that, so the ball remains in my court.

By the way, I'm also mourning the loss of interesting "freebies" and "public zines". It seems like communication should exist in "the public square", not just on the Net, or, as much as I love them, zine review zines.

I made the original post somewhat on a impulse in sort of a down mood. I didn't have much hope of persuading many people. I was just curious what the response might be. Maybe there are a few out there who have some sense of what I'm groping to explain. Maybe thing'll look brighter in the morning :).

[Johnny Misfit!]

Initially all I wanted was email communication. I was moving alot and printing addresses or PO Boxes change, hence making the zine address obsolete. I wasnt about to waste paper printing new copies for that respect.

But after prinint a few, I thought about the number of responses I got to my work, and considered adding in a snail mail address. So if anyone wants to trade or send in comments or mix tapes, etc. its easier to do so.

As it seems, doing both is more beneficial. Again this comes down to personal preference.

My two cents.

[rogerSIMIAN]

JAMES: I don't know why but I've got a good feeling about paper zines carrying on in interesting ways. Despite what I was saying earlier, I'm kind of old-school too, as far as zines. I did my one for a few years in the '90s then kind of dropped out of it - not cause I'd lost interest in them, but just cause I had no money any more and couldn't afford to get one photocopied or printed regularly. I've done some websites, which can be quite good but just doesn't have the same exuberance and glee to it that cutting up bits of paper, glueing stuff, selotaping, using ink pads etc, stamping up and mailing out envelopes, receiving PO Box mail etc has. A lot of the Zen of the Zine is in the making of it, or in the appreciation of somebody else's making of it. Blogs etc seem ok but they just don't have quite that same appeal for me (plus I can't read too much stuff online in large doses). Maybe it's cause, through circumstance, I've just made my first paper zine in over ten years but it does feel like this is still a valid and thriving and fun subculture. It's a lot smaller now of course but maybe there's a greater concentration of quality stuff now 'cause only the truly passionate makers of zines are sticking with it and the rest are doing blogs instead. I remember in the 90s buying 100s of zines and only a small percentage of those really captivated me. But I've loved every one of the new zines I've been receiving over the last few weeks. Now I think about it I've discovered all of those through the internet (mostly in here). So, I just see the online element as a handy tool to get to the other paper-ziners and let them know about my stuff too.

cheers
roger :-)

[Monstress Zine]

i always include a mailing address in my zines. though, i'm getting tired of either reprinting the back cover with the address every time i move or writing it in on the zines i send out. so honestly, my zine's email address is the most certain address. you're right, a mailing address is thoughtful when there are many people who don't have access to a computer, aren't connected to the internet or for one reason or another can't really navigate it.

anyway, james, part of what i'm getting from what you've written is the sense that a lot of zine culture and history--our traditions--are kinda getting thoughtlessly forgotten or disrespected. it's hard when what we do is already so ephemeral anyway. but personally, i felt more depressed about the future of the papernet about 10 years ago when i'd go to zine shows and there'd be these guys with laptops promoting their "e-zines" and sniffing disdainfully at snail mail and physical zines. joining we make zines has actually been heartening for me because i see more of a diversity of zines than i see in my local scene, but also because i see older zinesters who have been doing all the newfangled electronic artsy craziness returning to making things from paper. and i'm excited because being online, i've reconnected with readers i thought i had lost when distros went down or someone moved. and i've kind of made peace with zines moving towards "book art." "old" technologies usually end up becoming fine arts.

[Coco Negro]

i definitely include an address in every issue of mine, although of course i've only written two. i wouldn't have it any other way. i'll actually be moving to a more rural area a few hours outside of the city i live in very soon, and i will still keep my old p.o. box until i know for sure that i'm settled and stable somewhere else. the trip back to the city to check my mailbox is actually worth it for me, and sometimes my mailbox is like my lifeline. i feel VERY connected to the zine community through mail, and i wouldn't really want it to be any other way. i appreciate the internet, and i acknowledge the fact that most of my trades have come through this very website and other sites like it, but i feel that it is more of a tool and less of a necessity, and i too grow weary of it's overuse..."overuse" meaning i get cranky when someone sends me a comment on this page telling me all of these great things about my zine when i am sending notes/letters/postcards when i think someone elses' zine is awesome (of course, i still appreciate any kind words, and don't scorn people just because they do that). it's little things like that that the internet takes away. i've considered dropping my wemakezines account because of things like that, or at least posing a less active face on it, so it is understood that i will take a paper note with "fuck you" written on it over a comment on the internet anyday.

personally, i think e-zines are bullshit. e-anything sounds like bullshit.
-coco

[Shawn Granton]

"but personally, i felt more depressed about the future of the papernet about 10 years ago when i'd go to zine shows and there'd be these guys with laptops promoting their "e-zines" and sniffing disdainfully at snail mail and physical zines."

I remember those people too! I remember how the term "snail mail" was ALWAYS used in a derogatory manner by those folks. Reminds me of someone who was at Beantown Zinetown a number of years back who chided print zines as "being destructive to the environment". The answer: e-zines, of course! (I don't know if anyone told that person how pollution-filled the computer industry is, not to mention the means to power the computers. At least one person following simple instructions can create paper and ink from nature. I don't think you can make computers from scratch, but I've never tried, so what do I know?) OH! And the person promoted their idea via paper fliers! I don't know if they saw the irony in their actions.

There was a span of time, maybe '99-'04, whenever I went to a comic show that there was ALWAYS someone telling me that print was dead and web comics (that you can charge for, mind you) was THE FUTURE. I don't find those people anymore. Sure, people do web comics by the bajillion, but most are free. The whole "micropayment" scheme didn't take off. Sorry Scott McCloud!

Does anyone remember when there were people who were vehemently opposed to the inclusion of any web address/ email address in zines? (There were also some folk who opposed people using 9 digit zip codes, if I remember correctly.)

Did I even answer any question, or did I just ramble like some old-timer? Sorry. I'll go sit in the corner over there.