the cost of making zines, sending zines

[AndrewLips]

Hey. i'm not really sure of the point im trying to make/get across here so sorry if i start ranting

Browsing through a lot of the discussions i've noticed that people make a big point about charging for their zines, some zines I have seen are $7. As poor as I am (and maybe this is just a personal opinion) i still don't think it's fair to charge that much. When I finish my zine I want everyone to read it and send it out to as many people as possible. I've done this in the past with mixcds, sending them out to as many people as possible, with no charge.

I'm still a noobie to zines but from the overall view I got of them is that people didn't do it for the money, and usually people are loosing money rather than making money from doing zines..Am I wrong to think this?

I'm not saying everyone does this to make a quick buck, of course they don't. But am I only one to notice this/think this?

Just want some light shed on this

Also any tips on saving money making zines. i.e. using printers without paying (if possible)

Like I said I am poor, so i don't to spend too much. But I still want lots of people to read them

[Andrew Culture]

I think pretty much everyone loses money on making and distributing zines, but the non-cash rewards are HUGE

[Rick Bradford]

"i still don't think it's fair to charge that much. When I finish my zine I want everyone to read it and send it out to as many people as possible."

But that's the thing, being "fair" and wanting everyone to see your zine aren't really the same thing. I know exactly where you're coming from and I was always the same way with getting my comics to other people but everything's relative to the publisher's own situation, how fancy their production is, how cheaply they can get it made, etc.

[Emma Jane Falconer]

I don't lose money on the copies at least (won't even think of adding up the time I take to write the zine, cut, staple etc!), and I make a tiny bit of money from that, but hardly enough to make me rich. Perhaps buy myself several chocolate bars per week.

My tip-think about condensing your design down on each page, don't use vast amounts of empty space or big type to make it look bigger unless it's a design feature. Mine are pocket sized, and that saves on copying, but I use smaller type, so I actually fit a fair amount in. All my main zines work out as 3 double sided a4 sheets, which gives me 21 pages to work with, which is a decent number I feel, esp as I try not to have any "filler" pages.

[Ericfishlegs]

I think most people do end up losing money though i have no problem with paying an extra buck or whatever if someone is just trying to break even. My best trick for saving money on copies was using the self service copy machines at Staples, but now they have a system in place to make sure they don't get screwed over. I try not to lose too much money, but it's certainly not a profitable endeavor for me by any stretch.

[AndrewLips]

haha yeah i've done this lots in the past. they haven't changed the system in the UK yet, at least not where i live.

Ericfishlegs said:

My best trick for saving money on copies was using the self service copy machines at Staples, but now they have a system in place to make sure they don't get screwed over.

[Billy Da Bunny]

emma's "no filler" tip is a good one on saving time and money. other than that, i think most other tips just have to be learned. if you really want your stuff to get made, you'll find a way to make it happen.

how much is a zine worth? anyone who does one will charge whatever they'd like. if it's too much, no one will buy it. each person has to find their own balance, where they get it as out in the world as they'd like, but also feel compensated for their efforts.

There used to be this great zine called "Something for Nothing" out of Ohio. And when Idy finished a new issue, he'd mail it out to everyone, a list of "subscribers" that was probably in the hundreds. He did this for years, up to like 40 or 50 issues, and I don't think he ever charged for it, ever. I asked him one time how he could afford it. He basically said "well, it's a hobby. People always sink time and money into their hobbies. I don't have model cars or trading cards, I don't have a crazy stereo system... This is what I enjoy spending time and money on." It totally made sense to me after that.

[Sarah Arr!]

I think the best way to get your money's worth when doing zines is by writing something that you feel proud of, putting as much on a page as you can (mini zines and those big 11A[?] folded zines are a good way to get the most out of a page). And, what makes it worth the expense to me is trading with other zines I really like or am excited to read about.

Look, it's not a new concept that you're never going to get rich doing zines. If that's your goal, do a blog and take advertising. But it's an intimate way to communicate with a community that supports your writing. It's a cool way to network with other people. It's an innovative way to expose yourself to stories and life experiences that you might not otherwise get to experience. You can't put a price on that.

If you can scam some copies from your job, great. If you can work at Kinko's part time, that's another really good opportunity. But debating the price of someone's zine is kind of like arguing about the price of an entree at a restaurant. People price it based not just on the amount they pay for copies, paypal fees, and postage (all of which is admittedly pricey) but based on how much time and energy they spend on it, how personal it is, etc. I feel like haggling with people sort of negates the value of their work. Instead, if it's out of my zine budget, I probably will just take a miss on that particular issue, or propose what I think is a fair trade.

[AndrewLips]

Sarah Arr! said:

Look, it's not a new concept that you're never going to get rich doing zines. If that's your goal, do a blog and take advertising.

wow, let me just make it clear i'm not doing this too make money. you must of missed my point. but thanks for your feedback on this :)

[ciaraxyerra]

i think sarah was using the royal "you" in her post. you know, talking to the hypothetical "you" out there who might somewhere be wondering how to get rich off making zines. or at least make a little money.

i have noticed that many people on the we make zines site are maybe new to forums or something & seem to think that people are speaking directly to/about them when they reply to threads. i don't think this is the case. in another thread, i feel i wasted a lot of energy on people who reacted defensively to my stated opinions because they thought i was directly critiquing them or thinking they did sketchy things with zines when i was speaking about the larger phenomenon of sketchy things happening in the general zine world. much as sarah is speaking here about the hypothetical & generalized person somewhere in the zine community who might like to try making money from zines.

anyway, my tips for cutting costs when making zines:
* don't make filler pages! seriously,i don't get why people do this. it just makes a zine more expensive to copy & more expensive to ship, & as a reader, i don't feel great about paying $3 for a zine that contains pages actually labelled "filler page".
* think twice about every page. does it add to the zine? does it work with everything else? can you stand behind it in the face of what it will cost to print/ship? when in doubt, drop it. you can always put it in a later issue if you change your mind.
* pack as much on to a page as you can. i don't understand zines that actually contain random blank pages. maybe sometimes it's necessary for artistic effect, but maybe it's not worth it if money is that much of an issue.
* use bulk discounts at the copy shop! (assuming you don't have access to a scam.) i can't believe how many zinesters just make ten or twenty copies at a time & don't realize that their copying costs could go down by as much as 75% if they use bulk discounts.
* be smart about your postage options. use first-class mail unless the item you a shipping weighs more than a pound. i get a lot of zines that weigh only two or three ounces but were shipped priority! it's a waste of a couple of dollars! or zinesters will send me a bunch of issues (for my distro) & they will have spent $8 on postage when they could have fit everything in a flat-rate envelope. or they will use media mail but just wrap their zines in newspaper & scotch tape the edges. that is not gonna hold. the paper will rip & the zines will get lost.

i learned most of this stuff through trial & error. some of it requires re-conceptualizing your zines or the time you spend on your zines (ie, committing two or three hours to the copy shop once a month instead of twenty minutes every week, to get the bulk discount). but every little bit helps keep costs down for the zinester, & they can pass on the savings to readers & get more orders. i can tell you, as a distro owner, people are much more inclined to order cheaper zines, even when the more expensive zines are longer, heavier, & more labor-intensive. people only have so much money to spend on buying zines, & they want to get variety for their dollar, i guess.

[Emma Stronach]

When I was in primary school, and for most of high school, I used to make colouring books and sell them to people for fifty cents. I would help the library lady put all the books back and she would let me use the photocopier.

So maybe you could work a deal out with someone that you know has a printer. Given that black and white photocopiers don't really use too much ink and that Uni students are awesome scam artists, you might want to ask them for help... if you aren't one yourself.

[Sarah Arr!]

Yeah, sorry. I was being general. I type a lot like I talk.

Word on the bulk copying. I live in an area without a kinkos, but my local people (Venture Printing in Bluefield VA --- they do outside orders and mail them) have really reasonable rates. I got my last batch of copies (120 copies total of various issues) for less than $55.

Also, while it's eye-catching and might be more apt to make someone pick your zine off a shelf, cardstock and colored paper can get kind of costly, too. On the other hand personal touches like painting and block-printing are also really pretty and usually cheaper.